HISTSEX ARCHIVES: SEPTEMBER 1999

© Lesley Hall and list contributors


Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 17:00:57 +1000

From: Christopher Forth <Christopher.Forth@anu.edu.au>

Subject: Re: Copraphagia

Hi, again--

I didn't really expect to find much with this copraphagia query, and

appreciate the responses of those who took a stab. The quote I have in mind

comes from Eugen Weber's _France, Fin de Siècle_, where he cites André

Germain asking this of Jean Lorrain: "Was he copraphagous? Copraphagy was

quite fashionable at the time" (pp. 37-38). Weber goes on to say that the

idea of copraphagia was probably more in fashion than the actual practice,

which sort of puts it into perspective. Nevertheless, it was worth asking,

I think.

cheers!



Chris





***********************

Christopher E. Forth

Department of History

Faculty of Arts

Australian National University

Canberra ACT 0200

Australia

Tel: 02 6249 2717

Fax: 02 6249 4083

http://www.anu.edu./history/index.htm



________________________________________________________________

Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 05:44:00 -0700 (MST)

From: Tim Hodgdon <Tim.Hodgdon@asu.edu>

Subject: Re: RCPT: Introduction



Any way to weed out or prevent transmission of messages like

the one below? They're useful in other contexts, but not on

a list such as this

Tim Hodgdon

Ph.D. candidate

Faculty Associate

Department of History

Arizona State University

Tim.Hodgdon@asu.edu

On Wed, 1 Sep 1999, **** **** wrote:

> Histsex:For historians of sexuality - http://homepages.primex.co.uk/~lesleyah

>

> Confirmation of reading: your message -

>

> Date: 25 May 99 9:20

> To: histsex@listbot.com

> Subject: Introduction

>

> Was read at 11:14, 1 Sep 99.

>

>

> ________________________________________________________________

From: "Lesley Hall" <lesleyah@primex.co.uk>

Subject: Re: RCPT: Introduction

Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 19:32:11 +0100

I'm not sure why this is happening - it's not routinely coming from the same

address so it's not a case of an individual who has got their system set to

do this auto-receipt - and it's nothing that one seems able to do anything

about in the list management selections. If it goes on I'll try contacting

the listbot helpdesk. Apologies to all for the inconvenience.

Lesley Hall

histsex-owner@listbot.com

lesleyah@primex.co.uk

website http://homepages.primex.co.uk/~lesleyah

________________________________________________________________

Date: 2 Sep 1999 08:43:36 -0000

From: "Histsex:For historians of sexuality" <histsex-owner@listbot.com>

Subject: RCPT message problem

Pending resolution of this (I have contacted the Listbot help desk) I am

reinstating moderation of the list so that I can discard these empty

messages before they reach the entire list.

Lesley Hall

histsex-owner@listbot.com



________________________________________________________________

Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 21:18:48 +1000

From: Hera Cook <dcoo8738@mail.usyd.edu.au>

Subject: Re: re gender stability

Hi Tim,

(I'm not a Prof. by the way)



I find this interesting - the period covered by my doctorate ended in 1975 and I have

never researched my own culture in any event.

In my NZ experience, what I label the pro-sex feminism (as opposed to the separatist

anti-body feminism) of the 1970s was based on an almost axiomatic belief in gender

equality which was applied to all things and to all situations. Traditional gender

roles were regarded as gender constructs and disregarded as much as possible by those

people I knew in same sex relationships and in opposite sex relationships. I found this

then and do now, the only way to be.

Hmmmm, not all sex is theory. And no theory, aside from Kate Millet whom I read when I

was twelve, was what I would call formative.

Hera

________________________________________________________________

From: "ondit letter" <teague76@hotmail.com>

Subject: the problem with hustlers...

Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 05:26:35 GMT

Hello

My name is Daniel Marshall and I am currently studying Honours in English at

the University of Adelaide, Australia. In my thesis I am attempting to

examine the "hustler" as an icon within a specified "system" of (erotic)

aesthetics. I am interested in the featuring of the hustler in "beat" texts

and the so-called "new queer road movie" genre: Rechy's "city of night",

Warhol's Joe Dallesandro trilogy, "My own Private Idaho"....However, I am

finding it difficult to find anything written about this idea of the

"hustler" as an aesthetic idea, and i would be interested in discussing

people's ideas about it.

I would really appreciate anyone's suggestions re: resources etc..

Daniel.

________________________________________________________________

From: "Chris Willis" <chris@chriswillis.freeserve.co.uk>

Subject: Re: re gender stability

Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 19:07:02 +0100

Hi!

Many thanks to everyone who replied to my message about The Importance of

Being Earnest.

All the best

Chris



________________________________________________________________

Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 13:08:40 +0100

From: Ianthe <ianthe@duende.demon.co.uk>

Subject: Re: the problem with hustlers...

In message <19990905052635.61735.qmail@hotmail.com>, ondit letter

<teague76@hotmail.com> writes

>Histsex:For historians of sexuality - http://homepages.primex.co.uk/~lesleyah

>

>Hello

>

>My name is Daniel Marshall and I am currently studying Honours in English at

>the University of Adelaide, Australia. In my thesis I am attempting to

>examine the "hustler" as an icon within a specified "system" of (erotic)

>aesthetics. I am interested in the featuring of the hustler in "beat" texts

>and the so-called "new queer road movie" genre: Rechy's "city of night",

>Warhol's Joe Dallesandro trilogy, "My own Private Idaho"....However, I am

>finding it difficult to find anything written about this idea of the

>"hustler" as an aesthetic idea, and i would be interested in discussing

>people's ideas about it.

>I would really appreciate anyone's suggestions re: resources etc..

>

>Daniel.

_Midnight Cowboy_ is a related homosocial movie which springs

to mind. Perhaps also one that points to a component in the

hustler construction in which "the rural" and "the city" are

structuring dichotomies ?

This might be useful too ?:

Maynard, Steve.

'Horrible temptations': sex, men, and working-class male youth

in urban Ontario, 1890-1935. Canadian Historical Review,

06/1997.

Also George Chauncey has a discussion of 'wolves' and 'punks',

an erotic system of intergenerational sex common among seamen,

prisoners, and hoboes.

There was also a thesis done on hoboes (ie: tramps) in the

USA and the homosexual relations between young drifters:

Chad Heap

History grad student, 1996, University of Chicago:

"I have been working on single men and sexuality in Chicago during

the early decades of the twentieth century. In particular, I

wrote my M.A. thesis on issues of race, gender and sexuality among

hobos. The hobo subculture seems to have provided a site of

increased racial tolerance, including the tolerance of interracial

heterosexual relationships on the road. Yet the hobo subculture

was also a site of fairly rampant male homosexual activity.

Many of the homosexual road relationships were intergenerational

"jocker"-"punk"."

Hope this helps,

--

Ianthe Duende



________________________________________________________________

Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 10:01:37 -0700 (MST)

From: Tim Hodgdon <Tim.Hodgdon@asu.edu>

Subject: Re: the problem with hustlers...

Daniel: In order to frame the aesthetic idea, you're going

to have to ground it in masculinity as political practice.

Doing so will be a lot of work, but very rewarding. For

starters, I'd recommend John Stoltenberg's two books, *The

End of Manhood* and *Refusing to Be a Man,* and "Pimping:

The Oldest Profession," a chapter in Kathleen Barry's

*Female Sexual Slavery.* Much luck.

Tim Hodgdon

Ph.D. candidate

Faculty Associate

Department of History

Arizona State University

Tim.Hodgdon@asu.edu

________________________________________________________________

From: "Chris Willis" <chris@chriswillis.freeserve.co.uk>

Subject: Re: Maines' martyrdom

Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 18:07:03 +0100

Hi!

I'm astounded! The TENS machine is used by many hospitals to ease labour

pains, and is recognised by the medical professions as a pain reliever with

no side effects. It's one of the few things that can give some measure of

relief to RSI sufferers, and is a godsend to people with severe back pain.

What's CBT? Over here it means Compulsory Basic Training (ie the first part

of the test you do to get a motorcycling licence) but somehow I don't think

that's what you meant :-)

All the best

Chris



-----Original Message-----

From: markin@patriot.net <markin@patriot.net>

To: Histsex:For historians of sexuality <histsex@listbot.com>

Date: 27 August 1999 19:05

Subject: Re: Maines' martyrdom



>>Ah, so that's the "legitimate" use of the Tens machine ... I'd wondered,

>but didn't know whom to ask. The only context in I'd ever come across the

>thing was CBT. And the only advert I've ever seen was on the web (not

>sure I could find it again, though), on a sex "toy" site ... So, it all

>depends on what advertisements one finds, although it's easier to find

>explicitly sexual ones now than it was in Victorian times.

>

>

>Mario Rups

>markin@patriot.net

________________________________________________________________

Date: 5 Sep 1999 20:02:48 -0000

From: "Histsex:For historians of sexuality" <histsex-owner@listbot.com>

Subject: Research Interests Register

Histsex:For historians of sexuality - http://homepages.primex.co.uk/~lesleyah

This is just a reminder to send your information for this to me - either

at histsex-owner@listbot.com or lesleyah@primex.co.uk, if you would like

it to be added. I am not making the assumption that the details given when

individuals introduce themselves to the list is necessarily anything they

want putting on the register.

Lesley

________________________________________________________________

Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 08:47:03 +0200

From: Gert Hekma <hekma@pscw.uva.nl>

Subject: Re: the problem with hustlers...

Daniel

for resources the Homodok (info@homodok.nl) a gay lesbian studies archive

and resource center might give you a bibliography on your topic.

Gert hekma

________________________________________________________________

From: "Donna Larsen" <ladydonna85@hotmail.com>

Subject: Re: Maines' martyrdom

Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 12:08:24 PDT

Sadomasochists use CBT as short for cock and ball torcher. And yes we

really do use Tens units for that. Electricity is one of the very popular

fetishes among SMers, we have also been known to use Violet Wands. Both can

create some very interesting sensations.



________________________________________________________________

From: "Lesley Hall" <lesleyah@primex.co.uk>

Subject: Fw: Introduction: David Robinson

Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 19:52:59 +0100



From: David Robinson <dmrobins@U.Arizona.EDU>

To: histsex-owner@listbot.com <histsex-owner@listbot.com>

Date: 05 September 1999 22:36

Subject: Introduction

>Hi,

>

>Here's the information that you requested, to serve as my introduction to

>the list:

>

>Dr. David Michael Robinson

>Assistant Professor of 18th-Century Literature and Lesbian and Gay Studies

>English Dept., University of Arizona (Tucson)

>

>M.A. (1993) and Ph.D. (1998) from the University of California at Berkeley.

>

>I work on the representation of lesbians and gay men in seventeenth- and

>eighteenth-century Britain and France. I will soon be expanding my studies

>to include Holland, Italy, and Germany as well.

>

>Publications:

>"Unravelling the 'cord which ties good men to good men': male friendship in

>Richardson's novels," in Margaret Anne Doody and Peter Sabor, eds., _Samuel

>Richardson: Tercentenary Essays_ (Cambridge: Cambridge Univ. Pr., 1989),

pp.

>167-187.

>

>"Refining Upon their Mysterious Innocence: Lesbian and Bisexual Women in

>Manley's _New Atalantis_," to be published in an upcoming, special issue of

>_Nineteenth-Century Contexts_ devoted to queer topics, edited by Rick

>Incorvati.

>

>"'New, unknown, prodigious Fires': Ovid's Story of Iphis and Ianthe in

>Augustan Rome and on the Seventeeth-Century British and French Stage," to

be

>published in _Presenting Gender: Sex Change in Early Modern Culture,_

edited

>by Christopher Mounsey (forthcoming from Manchester Univ. Pr./Longman).

>

>"The Abominable Madame de Murat: Reading her Life, Reading (into?) her

>Fiction," to be published in an upcoming special double issue of _The

>Journal of Homosexuality_ or _The Journal of the History of Sexuality_

(I've

>forgotten which) devoted to French Lesbian and Gay History, to be edited

(or

>coedited) by Jeffrey Merrick.

>

>Conference papers:

>

>My most recent conference paper was entitled "Taming the Tribade:

Rhetorical

>Strategies of Antilesbian Discourse in Seventeenth- and Eighteenth-Century

>Britain and France"; it was delivered at the annual conference of the

>International Society for the History of Rhetoric, held in Amsterdam in

July

>1999.

________________________________________________________________

Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 11:49:01 EST

From: markin@patriot.net

Subject: Re: Maines' martyrdom

> I'm astounded! The TENS machine is used by many hospitals to ease labour

> pains, and is recognised by the medical professions as a pain reliever with

But, you see, I'm not a doctor, nor do I work in a hospital. I *do*, on

the other hand, subscribe to a number of sex / sexuality lists in an

attempt to understand (or at least learn more about -- some things remain,

to me, beyond comprehension) various facets of the topic. It was on one of

those that I heard the TENS machine first referred to, and the URL I

followed (but did not note down) did show its use on another part of the

anatomy altogether than the back. (The caption, at least, claimed it was a

TENS machine, although it only capitalized the initial.)

> What's CBT? Over here it means Compulsory Basic Training (ie the first part

With apologies to those who are offended by explicit language, it stands

for "Cock and Ball Torture", a subset of the bondage / S-M form. If anyone

truly wants me to be more explicit, I can provide various URLs, perhaps,

but you need a strong stomach. Your imaginations will serve quite well, I

suspect.

> of the test you do to get a motorcycling licence) but somehow I don't think

> that's what you meant :-)

<laughs> Nope.

> All the best

> Chris

And to you.

Mario



Mario Rups

markin@patriot.net



________________________________________________________________

From: "Lesley Hall" <lesleyah@primex.co.uk>

Subject: The Ancient Greeks again

Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 18:44:06 +0100

I just today came across an article in The New Statesman for 23 Aug, =

Kwasi Kwarteng, 'Was Plato the only Greek gay?' - this can be found via =

the NS website, http://www.newstatesman.co.uk by doing a search on the =

archives under Kwarteng's name.

Lesley Hall

lesleyah@primex.co.uk

website http://homepages.primex.co.uk/~lesleyah

________________________________________________________________

Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 11:49:03 EST

From: markin@patriot.net

Subject: Re: the problem with hustlers...

Although neither book addresses the subject of the hustler as an aesthetic

idea, you might want to take a glance at John Preston's _Hustling: A

Gentleman's Guide to the Fine Art of Homosexual Prostitution_ (New York:

Madquerade Books, 1994) and Joseph Itiel, _A Consumer's Guide to Male

Hustlers_ (New York: Harrington Park Press, 1998), both in print and in

paperback. The former gives the hustler's point of view (Preston having

been a hustler earlier in his life); the latter, the client's (Itiel having

hired hustlers for several decades in preference to the rather

catch-as-catch-can cruising for sexual partners). Together, these two

books give one some interesting insights, and the Preston (with Itiel

following him) has a fairly good explanation of the differences between

hustling and (female) prostitution.

Searching on the Web under terms like "male escort" brings up some

interesting material, as well -- specifically adverts for and websites of

a number of hustlers. Comparing the (projected) reality of the real thing

with the fictional reality of the films might prove useful.



Mario Rups

markin@patriot.net



________________________________________________________________

From: "jayD" <jaysd@mistral.co.uk>

Subject: Women's History Newsletter

Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 09:17:25 +0100

I am the editor of the Newsletter of the Southern Region of the Women's

History Network. If any of you have anu itmes you think mightbe of interst

to wmen's hsi toirans (conferences, web sites, books, news, information

requests etc), please do let me have them as I am putting the Autumn

newsletter together this week end.

Thanks,

jay

jaysd@mistral.co.uk



________________________________________________________________

Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 18:34:33 +0100

From: Paula Bartley <fa1912@wlv.ac.uk>

Subject: Re: Women's History Newsletter

Dear Jay

Two items for your newsletter:

1)Women's History Network (Midlands Region) Conference on Women and War at

the University of Wolverhampton, Dudley Campus on Saturday November 13th

1999. Speakers to include Bernice Archer on Women, Quilts and Changi prison;

Barbara Broad on the experiences of P-O-W's wives in 2nd W.War, Carole

Frankish on rural women's war work and Janis Lomas on war widows.

Further details from Dr Paula Bartley, School of Humanities, Languages and

Social Sciences, Dudley Campus, University of Wolverhampton, Dudley, DY1

3HR or e-mail P.Bartley@wlv.ac.uk.

2)To publicise my book! Paula Bartley, Prostitution: Reform and Prevention

in England, 1860-1914, Routledge, November 1999.

All the best

Paula Bartley

________________________________________________________________

Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 10:13:50 +0100

From: cristina santos <cristina@fe.uc.pt>

Subject: greek homossexuality again

Can anyone, please, share with me the name of the book, year of

publication, editor and place where "Classical Greek Atitudes to Sexual

Behaviour" DOVER, K. J. (1973) was published?

I have a paper to deliver in a few hours and I have this one missing, so

this is kind of urgent...

Thanks. I promiss I'll introduce myself sooner than latter...

Cris



________________________________________________________________

Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 21:49:53 +0100

From: Alison Oram <aoram@orangetree.u-net.com>

Subject: Lesbian history in Australasia and Ireland

Some fairly recent articles that I've found useful on Australian lesbian

history are:

- Lucy Chesser, "A Woman who married three wives....", Journal of Women's

History, 9:4, Winter 1998.

- Ruth Ford, 'Lesbians and loose women: Female sexuality and the women's

services during World War II' in J. Damousi & M. Lake (eds), _Gender and

War: Australians at war in the 20th century_ (Cambridge Univ Press, 1995)

- Ruth Ford, 'Speculating on Scrapbooks, Sex and Desire: Issues in Lesbian

History', Australian Historical Journal 106, April 1996.

Hope these are helpful.

I'm looking for some parallel information on Irish lesbian history as it

happens. Can anyone point me in the direction of the main secondary

sources?? In particular, I'm interested in whether the Ladies of

Llangollen (two Irish gentry women who eloped together in 1788 to live

together in Wales until their deaths c.1830) are considered to be part of a

specifically Irish lesbian heritage. They have certainly been seen as part

of a British lesbian tradition, but I don;t want to completely reassign

their national identity in the work I'm currently doing!

Thanks

Alison Oram

London (and University College Northampton, UK)







At 21:37 24/08/99 -0700, you wrote:

>Histsex:For historians of sexuality - http://homepages.primex.co.uk/~lesleyah

>

>Does anyone on the list know of any brand new work being published on

>lesbian history in New Zealand or Australia? I've rather lost touch since

>leaving NZ 7 years ago and would like to get a sense of the state of the

>field "down under", but web searches have revealed almost nothing. Any

>references you could provide would be most helpful.

>

>Thanks,

>

>Karen

>

>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

>Karen Duder PhD Programme

>Department of History Email kduder@uvic.ca

>University of Victoria Dept. Phone (250) 721-7382

>P.O. Box 3045 Dept. Fax (250) 721-8772

>Victoria, B.C. V8W 3P4

>CANADA

>

>"Any measurement must take into account the position of the observer.

> There is no such thing as measurement absolute, there is only

> measurement relative. Relative to what is an important part of the

> question." Jeanette Winterson, _Gut Symmetries_

>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

________________________________________________________________

Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 08:55:05 -0700

From: Karen Duder <kduder@UVic.CA>

Subject: Re: Lesbian history in Australasia and Ireland

Alison - thanks for the references! The second Ford one is familiar to me,

but the other two are not. The war article looks particularly relevant to

my work.

I have never seen anything dealing with "The Ladies" as specifically

*Irish* lesbians. Good luck in your search.

Karen

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Karen Duder PhD Programme

Department of History Email kduder@uvic.ca

University of Victoria Dept. Phone (250) 721-7382

P.O. Box 3045 Dept. Fax (250) 721-8772

Victoria, B.C. V8W 3P4

CANADA

"Any measurement must take into account the position of the observer.

There is no such thing as measurement absolute, there is only

measurement relative. Relative to what is an important part of the

question." Jeanette Winterson, _Gut Symmetries_

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



________________________________________________________________

Subject: Gay history conference + Introduction (again)

Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 04:16:17 -0800

From: "andrei-f" <andrei-f@goplay.com>

For those who have read my previous intro, please forgive my

repetitiveness. For those who haven't, I am an amateur historical

journalist, and my curent project is editing an educational web site

called "The World History of Male Love" at http://www.androphile.org

I have been looking for information on any upcoming conferences on

gay history, and have found nothing. If there isn't any, I would

consider organizing one if there is enough interest. Amsterdam in the

winter of 2001 might be nice.

Thank you.



A. Kallimachos





________________________________________________________________

From: "Lesley Hall" <lesleyah@primex.co.uk>

Subject: The Ancient Greeks - yet again!

Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 21:30:19 +0100





In 'The Editor' section of the Guardian (comes with the Friday issue), =

their 'Digested Read' this week is, guess what, Vrissimitzis's _Love, =

Sex and and Marriage in Ancient Greece_, which has just been published =

in the UK by Vrissimitzis Publications. This 400 word summary (plus the =

short short in a sentence version) should be available on the =

www.newsunlimited.co.uk site (search the archives).

The book costs =A37.50 which sounds a little dear to me if it is only 80 =

pages long. On the other hand, it is illustrated (over 30 figures from =

vases)

Lesley Hall

lesleyah@primex.co.uk

website http://homepages.primex.co.uk/~lesleyah

________________________________________________________________ From: ddh@arts.gla.ac.uk

Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 16:15:08 +0000

Subject: Re: The Ancient Greeks - yet again!

I've just come back to Scotland from Zakinthos where Vrissimitzis's _Love, Sex

and and Marriage in Ancient Greece_, is on sale for about 2,000 drachmas

(about 4 pounds) in every tacky tourist-trap souvenir stand, in many different

languages. It strikes me as the latest in a long line of popular-histories-of-sex-in-

the-ancient-world-for-tourists, an interesting genre in its own right if you think of

the history of tourism. The illustrations are rather good, but some of them are

lower-quality photos by the author; the objects they depict are scupulously

referenced. The text is unspeakably homophobic and every sentence with a

point to make ends with an exclamation mark! It's my favourite souvenir from

my holiday!

Dan Healey

Dan Healey

Wellcome Unit for the History of Medicine

School of History and Archaeology

University of Glasgow

5 University Gardens

Glasgow G12 8QQ

Tel. (0141) 330-5553

Fax (0141) 330-3511

ddh@arts.gla.ac.uk



________________________________________________________________

From: "Donna Larsen" <ladydonna85@hotmail.com>

Subject: Re: Gay history conference + Introduction (again)

Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 19:08:18 PDT

What a fascinating site. I am at Community College and getting ready to

take my three quarters of foreign language requirement for my AA transfere

degree. I will be taking French. Since my area is going to be sexology, I

will have to do some papers on sex attitudes in France both in past and

present, I will definitely look to your site for information.

________________________________________________________________

From: MillerJimE@aol.com

Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 20:42:43 EDT

Subject: Re: The Ancient Greeks - yet again!

In a message dated 09/13/1999 1:42:19 PM Central Daylight Time,

ddh@arts.gla.ac.uk writes:

<< where Vrissimitzis's _Love, Sex and and Marriage in Ancient Greece_, is

on sale for about 2,000 drachmas . . . . and every sentence with a point to

make ends with an exclamation mark! >>

Ooooh, that's a book I just have to read (!).

Jim Miller



________________________________________________________________

Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 17:40:10 +0100

From: cristina santos <cristina@fe.uc.pt>

Subject: Re: Gay history conference + Introduction (again)

Thanks for sharing with us your wonderful site, which is already in my

bookmarks. I wonder if you could't do something with that quality for

lesbian history. Because my dissertation (sociology degree) is on sexual

identities, I would love to see that kind of material concerning most

sexual minorities groups. And, yes, please organize that conference in

Amsterdam, I'm pretty sure I'll be there!!

OK, I won't delay my owm introduction no more. I'm 24, I'm finishing my

degree in Sociology at the University of Coimbra (portugal) and I'm also

working at the Center for Social Studies. Most of the time I read books,

write short essays and do a little research, which pleases me a lot. Would

you all be too angry if I shared with you my sexual orientation? Since I

remembber whwt happened a few weeks ago with Donna Larsen, I'm having

second thoughts on this one... Anyway, so far I'm straight.

Cristina



________________________________________________________________

From: "Lesley Hall" <lesleyah@primex.co.uk>

Subject: Re: French sexual attitudes

Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 20:13:00 +0100



>will have to do some papers on sex attitudes in France both in past and

>present,

On this topic, I strongly recommend the work of Robert Nye. (e.g. shameless

advertising plug, his article in Eder, Hall and Hekma, Sexual Cultures in

Europe: National Histories)

Lesley Hall

lesleyah@primex.co.uk

website http://homepages.primex.co.uk/~lesleyah



________________________________________________________________ Subject: Re: Gay history conference + Introduction (again)

Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 04:43:16 -0800

From: "andrei-f" <andrei-f@goplay.com>

>Thanks for sharing with us your wonderful site, which is already in

>my bookmarks. I wonder if you could't do something with that quality

>for lesbian history.

As it is, my resources are stretched to the breaking point by the

present project. However, I could certainly assist someone by making

the basic structure of the site available to someone who was willing

to do the journalistic work. It would clearly be a much harder task,

because of the double repression that obsures lesbian history.

As far as Amsterdam goes, I very much hope it comes together. If it

does, I would like to give it a particular thrust, and that is -

Getting the Word Out. (We might even use that as the title of the

conference). The issue for me is this: A great deal of work is being

done in academia, but the impact on society to this point has not

been great, kids still grow up in homophobic neighborhoods and

schools, totally ignorant of the facts of gender history. You should

see some of the letters filled with relieved gratitude bordering on

disbelief I have gotten from teenagers on the Androphile site. (Look

at the "Symposium" section for a sample).

Hope to see you there,

Andrei

________________________________________________________________

Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 18:45:56 +0100

From: Paula Bartley <fa1912@wlv.ac.uk>

Subject: Re: The Ancient Greeks - yet again!

Plea for help

I'm trying to get funding for a joint project (with statutory agencies, the

voluntary sector and academics) on twentieth century prostitution in

England, focussing particularly on the Midlands. I work at the University

of Wolverhampton as Senior Lecturer in History.

Any advice on how to obtain monies and any ideas on the applicability of

history to present-day prostitution? Anyone else doing similar work?

Thanks

Paula Bartley





________________________________________________________________

Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 22:50:25 +0000

Subject: Hirschfeld bibliography/Titus Pearls

From: ralfdose@t-online.de (Ralf Dose)

Dear Colleagues,

may I ask you for some help with a little reseach project: As

you may know, there was an impotence remedy invented by

Bernhard Schapiro and Magnus Hirschfeld at the Institute for Sexual

Science. This hormone pharmaceutical was sold since 1927 under the

name of Testifortan to the medical profession in Germany, and (since

1929) as Titus-Perlen (Titus Pearls, Perlas Titus, Perles Titus) to

a general public in Germany and abroad. We know of corresponding

pharmacies in Switzerland, Spain, and France; and distribution in

England is mentioned in some contracts, but we do not have any proof.

There were even detailed contracts to bring "Titus Pearls" to the

U.S., but it is not sure whether something came out of it.

There were little promotion brochures for the "Titus Pearls" in

German, Spanish, French, and in English. Unfortunately, we never saw

one of the English brochures, though there is a cataloque entry at

the Deutsche Buecherei in Leipzig. These brochures were issued under

the title "New Life" (Neues Leben/Nueva Vida/Une vie nouvelle), with

no author given. As we want to complete the entries for the second

edition of Jim Steakley's Hirschfeld bibliography, we would really

like to know whether a copy of the English brochure still exists. If

anyone of you has an idea where to look for it (especially in British

libraries) please let me know (Lesley: I've checked the Wellcome

online catalogue--no result). Or, if the brochure happens to be in

your institution's library, may I ask for a copy?

Thanks a lot for any help you can give.

Ralf

Magnus-Hirschfeld-Gesellschaft e.V.

Forschungsstelle zur Geschichte der Sexualwissenschaft

Chodowieckistr. 41, D-10405 Berlin

http://www.in-berlin.de/user/hirschfeld

ralfdose@magnus.in-berlin.de office e-mail

x49-30-441 39 73 office phone/fax

ralfdose@t-online.de home e-mail

x49-30-215 94 74 home phone



________________________________________________________________

Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 12:08:42 +1000

From: Christopher Forth <Christopher.Forth@anu.edu.au>

Subject: 19th Century Pornography

Hi, all--

Can anyone recommend work that interrogates Lynn Hunt's claim that by the

19th century pornography had lost its connection to politics? Much of the

work I know of is clustered in the early modern era and the 20th century,

leaving the 19th century somewhat underworked. I'm especially interested in

any work done in the French context--it just seems odd that the pamphlet

and underground literature around the upheavals of 1830 and 1848 would have

been without some sort of pornographic edge.

My sense is that this is a huge hole in scholarship, and will be very

interested in what people have to say about it.

best,

Chris









***********************

Christopher E. Forth

Department of History

Faculty of Arts

Australian National University

Canberra ACT 0200

Australia

Tel: 02 6249 2717

Fax: 02 6249 4083

http://www.anu.edu./history/index.htm



________________________________________________________________

Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 12:11:26 +1000

From: Christopher Forth <Christopher.Forth@anu.edu.au>

Subject: East Asian Sexuality

Hi, all--

I have a postgraduate student interested in exploring British treatments of

east Asian sexuality during the 18th and 19th centuries. I directed her to

Rudi Bleys' work, _The Geography of Perversion_, for its encyclopedic

approach, but would appreciate any suggestions this list may be able to

offer. She is aware of the vast litrerature on India, but is more

interested in Japan and China.

best,

Chris









***********************

Christopher E. Forth

Department of History

Faculty of Arts

Australian National University

Canberra ACT 0200

Australia

Tel: 02 6249 2717

Fax: 02 6249 4083

http://www.anu.edu./history/index.htm



________________________________________________________________

Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 10:21:59 +0100

From: cristina santos <cristina@fe.uc.pt>

Subject: Conference

Has anyone in the list been in the Sexual Diversity & Human Rights Second

International Conference: Beyond Boundaries : Sexual Diversity and Human

Rights, which took place at Manchester Metropolitan University, UK, 21-24

July 1999 ?

If so, how was it? And what were the main conclusions? Were there any

alternative though pragmatic solutions proposed? Ok, just another one: does

anyone know when the abstracts or the full communications will be available

on-line?

Thanks

Cris



________________________________________________________________

Subject: Re: 19th Century Pornography

Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 09:42:29 -0500

From: "Michael J. Murphy" <mjmurphy@artsci.wustl.edu>



You might want to look a the work of feminist art historians like Linda

Nochlin, Linda Neal, Griselda Pollock and Abigail Solomon-Godeau. each

has explored the image of women in 19th century art. It has become

commonplace to compare 19th century salon nudes to contemporary

pornographic photography. I can't think of images directly associated

with a political treatise, but the annual salon was a state event, and

female nudes, the state iconography. Sexualized images of women were

often the locus of considerable contraversy in the art world, often with

political implications. I'm thinking particularly here of Degas'

sculpture, Little Dancer, Aged Fourteen and Manet's Olympia and his

Dejeuner sur l'Herbe. See work by Richard Kendall on Degas and Linda Neal

on the latter Manet.

Best,

Mike Murphy

________________________________________________________________

Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 09:34:33 -0700

From: Karen Duder <kduder@UVic.CA>

Subject: Connection between race, penis size studied

Histsex:For historians of sexuality - http://homepages.primex.co.uk/~lesleyah

The following article was published recently in the Vancouver Sun,

Vancouver, British Columbia, and has understandably caused much comment

here in the last week or so. Needless to say, much has been said about its

reinforcement of stereotypes.

Karen

Connection between race, penis size studied

The Vancouver Sun

Ken MacQueen



Researchers at British Columbia's Children's Hospital are taking the

measure of

newborn males to see if penis size varies by race or ethnic origin.

The unusual research, which reportedly has unsettled some hospital staff, may

put to bed the oft-debated question of whether penis size is a racial

characteristic.

As to the the proverbial question -- does size matter? -- it does, researchers

say.

"In particular, it is important to make sure that the size of the penis is

appropriate," they say in a letter seeking parental permission for the

measurements of penis length and diameter.

"The diagnosis of small penis carries important implications for babies and

parents."

The study, which began Sept. 1 and runs two months, will measure the

penises of

full-term newborns of Caucasian, Asian and East Indian background -- the main

ethnic groups in Vancouver. Blacks were not included because too few are

born at

the hospital for the study's purpose.

"This takes about three minutes and is not uncomfortable," the letter informs

mothers. "We only need remove the diaper."

The measurements will be taken at the same time as a related study measuring

birth weight and head circumference according to ethnic background.

Birth weight and body length vary by ethnicity, but penis size, by race, has

largely gone unstudied, says Dr. Pik Shun Cheng, an endocrinologist from Hong

Kong who is serving a clinical fellowship at the Children's Hospital.

Currently, the standard of normal or abnormal penis size is largely based

on the

results of a study conducted in the 1940s involving mainly Caucasians, she

said.



Vancouver is an ideal site for an update because of its diverse ethnic makeup,

said Cheng, co-investigator with Dr. Jean-Pierre Chanoine, an

endocrinologist in

the pediatrics department at the Children's Hospital.

The hypothesis is that ethnicity is related to penis size, therefore different

standards should apply when measuring development among newborns, she said

in an

interview Thursday.

For example, she said, "We hypothesize that the Chinese have a little bit

shorter penile length at birth."

An ethnic-based standard would help diagnosis of "micropenis." Background

papers

to the study say micropenis is currently defined as a stretched penis that is

shorter than 2.5 cm in length in a full-term newborn.

It can signal to parents "that the genital development and sex determination

might be abnormal in their newborn -- a very traumatizing experience even

if the

investigations later show that the baby is actually a perfectly normal male

infant."

A more ethnically sensitive standard would better tell doctors when additional

examination, investigation or treatment are required.

"In particular, we do encounter some cases of very short penile length, and

then

we need to decide whether they should be raised as a girl or as a boy --

whether

they need to have a sexual reversal," said Cheng.

A sexual reversal is a rare procedure, she stressed, but it would help to

have a

more carefully defined "cut-off point" than 2.5 cm.

"The parents and the whole family will have a lot of psychological stress.

It's

a very, very hard time because they don't know whether it's a boy or it's a

girl. That's the main reason we're doing it."

Cheng, who conducts most of the measurements herself, said virtually all

mothers

have granted permission.

"I think if I explain to them clearly, it sounds reasonable."

As for the staff, she admits some were skeptical.

"Actually, at first some of them thought it was a joke . . . but we did

explain

to them and [show] them the consent form and they think it's okay."

Cherry Graf, communications director for the hospital's research institute,

says

all research, including the penis study, is vetted for scientific and ethical

standards before it can be conducted.

It is first approved by the University of B.C.'s clinical ethics review board.

Finally it is considered by a review board at the hospital to determine how it

will affect hospital resources and patients.

She said she is not aware of any concerns raised by the study.

Cheng said the doctors hope to publish their results.

"Of course there would be no names on it," she says of the all-critical

size-thing. "It's not useful for me to have the names."

Studies of race-based theories are something of a academic minefield.

In particular, University of Western Ontario psychology professor Philippe

Rushton earned near universal condemnation for attempting to define a racial

pecking order.

He used estimates of head size and even penis size to bolster a theory that

Asians had larger heads and smaller penises, making them a more highly evolved

race.

Rushton claims that blacks have larger penises but smaller heads, while whites

finished in the middle of his much-disputed intelligence and evolutionary

scale.

*************************

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Karen Duder PhD Programme

Department of History Email kduder@uvic.ca

University of Victoria Dept. Phone (250) 721-7382

P.O. Box 3045 Dept. Fax (250) 721-8772

Victoria, B.C. V8W 3P4

CANADA

"Any measurement must take into account the position of the observer.

There is no such thing as measurement absolute, there is only

measurement relative. Relative to what is an important part of the

question." Jeanette Winterson, _Gut Symmetries_

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



________________________________________________________________ Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 16:58:04 +0100

From: Alison Oram <aoram@orangetree.u-net.com>

Subject: Temporary Research Assistant/s Needed

I am looking for someone (probably a postgraduate student) based in London

to do some casual research work for a British Academy funded project on

women cross-dressing in interwar Britain.

The work involves scanning Sunday newspapers (The People and The News of

the World 1914-1939) on microfilm at Colindale Newspaper Library, looking

for reports of cross-dressing women. There will also be some follow-up

work in other newspapers.

There is funding for 50 days work which can be carried out by one or more

people, part-time or full-time (before Easter 2000).

Pay will be on the Researcher A scale (for appropriately qualified person)

at point 6 (£9.40 per hour, or £65.80 for a 7 hour day) plus limited

travelling expenses.

Knowledge of British lesbian history or experience of newspaper research

would be an advantage, but is not essential.

Anyone who is interested can contact me on this (home) e-mail address, and

send a CV and brief letter of application to me:

Dr Alison Oram

Reader in Women's Studies

University College Northampton

Park Campus

Boughton Green Road

Northampton

NN2 7AL

Thanks,

Alison Oram



________________________________________________________________

Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 17:27:26 +0100

From: Alison Oram <aoram@orangetree.u-net.com>

Subject: Re: 19th Century Pornography

Anna Clark is currently working on gender, sexuality and politics in the

early 19thC, and I'm sure some of her work uses pornography as source

material.

She has recently moved to a new post in the History Dept at the University

of Minnesota, Minneapolis. I'm afraid I don't have a more detailed address

for her yet, but I shouldn't think it would be too difficult to track her

down there.

Alison Oram

University College Northampton, UK

________________________________________________________________

From: kallberg@sas.upenn.edu (Jeffrey Kallberg)

Subject: Re: 19th Century Pornography

Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 15:37:55 -0400 (EDT)

Christopher Forth wrote:

>

> Hi, all--

>

> Can anyone recommend work that interrogates Lynn Hunt's claim that by the

> 19th century pornography had lost its connection to politics? Much of the

> work I know of is clustered in the early modern era and the 20th century,

> leaving the 19th century somewhat underworked. I'm especially interested in

> any work done in the French context--it just seems odd that the pamphlet

> and underground literature around the upheavals of 1830 and 1848 would have

> been without some sort of pornographic edge.

>

> My sense is that this is a huge hole in scholarship, and will be very

> interested in what people have to say about it.



I am not aware of any such work, alas. One problem may be availability

of materials. When I spent some time investigating the *Enfer*

collection in the Paris, B.N., it was precisely materials from the period

you mention (1830-48) that I was hoping to find. But *Enfer* would

appear to preserve much more from before and after this time than during

it. Whether this is a quirk of the collection or whether it reflects

something about the actual production of pornography around Paris around

the 1830 and 1848 revolutions, I can't say.

In the few pornographic works that I read that *do* date from this

period, though, I saw nothing that would refute Hunt's claim.



--

Jeffrey Kallberg

Professor and Director of Graduate Studies

Department of Music

University of Pennsylvania

201 S. 34th St.

Philadelphia, PA 19104-6313

215-898-7545 (office)

215-573-2106 (fax)

kallberg@sas.upenn.edu



________________________________________________________________

From: MillerJimE@aol.com

Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 18:54:57 EDT

Subject: Re: Phallic Persian Scabbard

I came across an odd bit today. I was thumbing through DT Potts, The

Archaeology of Elam (Cambridge Univ Press, 1999). On p 344 is a picture of a

Persian daggar & scabbard known as an "akinakes".The scabbard is obviously

phallic. The tip is a rounded triangular shape like the head of a penis and

near the open end of the scabbard is a paired scallop which appears to be a

scrotum. With such an obvious image in large reproduction it is interesting

that the author, who presumably chose the illustration, made no comment on

the obvious phallic appearance of the scabbard.

Now, I do know that daggars and swords are obvious phallic symbols.

However, usually the imagry is not this obvious. Does anyone know who has

written on this scabbard or others like it with explicit phallic appearance?

Jim Miller



________________________________________________________________

From: "Lesley Hall" <lesleyah@primex.co.uk>

Subject: Representations of abortion,early C20th England

Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 12:26:46 +0100

I was wondering if the collective wisdom of the list could come up with =

any accounts (in novels, plays, etc of any or no literary standing, =

autobiography, memoirs, whatever) of abortion in England (the legal =

situation was different in Scotland) prior to the 1967 Abortion Act?

I have the following references:

H Granville-Barker's play _Waste_ (woman dies from illegal abortion =

following affair with politician)

ASM Hutchinson _This Freedom_ (misogynistic and anti-feminist novel in =

which mother more interested in career than children, is punished by, =

among other things, the death of her daughter {who I guess is also being =

punished for taking too much advantage of WWI freedoms for women} from =

illicit abortion)

Michael Arlen, _The Green Hat_ (as I recall, it's ages since I read =

this, at one point Iris is in a Paris nursing home with 'septic =

poisoning', the implication being that this is the outcome of an =

abortion gone wrong)

Rosamund Lehmann, _The Weather in the Streets_ (Olivia aborts pregnancy =

by her married lover)

Naomi Mitchison, _We Have Been Warned_ (Dionne, married with several =

children and concerned about the the uncertain political future, wonders =

whether it is self-indulgent to have another child, contemplates =

abortion, but eventually decides to go ahead and have the child - her =

discussions with her husband indicate that the procedure would have been =

to go abroad somewhere)

AJ Cronin, _The Citadel_ (passing allusion to fashionable Harley St =

society doctor making a good deal of his income from 'curettage')

Dame Alex Meynell, autobiography, _Public Servant Private Woman_, =

mentions that for the unmarried sexually active woman of the interwar =

years (like her) this was always on the cards - =A3100 in a discreet =

nursing home.

Any further references very gratefully received.

Lesley Hall

lesleyah@primex.co.uk

website http://homepages.primex.co.uk/~lesleyah





________________________________________________________________

Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 12:41:41 +0100

From: Ianthe <ianthe@duende.demon.co.uk>

Subject: Re: 19th Century Pornography

Re: the topic of 19th Century Pornography --

_Call for information_:

Leonard Smithers -- A key figure of the English 1890s, he

published many books that more conventional publishers

would not touch - ranging from the works of Symonds,

Dowson, Beardsley and Wilde through to outright pornography.

Oscar Wilde described him thus:

"He is usually in a large straw hat, has a blue tie delicately

fastened with a diamond brooch of the impurest water - or

perhaps wine, as he never touches water: it goes to his head at

once. His face, clean-shaven as befits a priest who serves at

the altar whose God is Literature, is wasted and pale - not with

poetry but with poets, who he says, have wrecked his life by

insisting on publishing with him. He loves first editions,

especially by women. Little girls are his passion. He is the

most learned erotomaniac in Europe. He is also a delightful

companion..."

"Little girls are his passion" - does anyone know more ?

Yours

--

Ianthe Duende



________________________________________________________________

From: "Robin Hood" <mozowin@gtw.net>

Subject: Re: 19th Century Pornography

Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 13:27:24 -0000

-----Original Message-----

From: Ianthe <ianthe@duende.demon.co.uk>

To: Histsex:For historians of sexuality <histsex@listbot.com>

Date: Sunday, September 26, 1999 4:07 PM

Subject: Re: 19th Century Pornography



>Histsex:For historians of sexuality -

http://homepages.primex.co.uk/~lesleyah

>

>Re: the topic of 19th Century Pornography --

>

>_Call for information_:

>

>Leonard Smithers -- A key figure of the English 1890s, he

>published many books that more conventional publishers

>would not touch - ranging from the works of Symonds,

>Dowson, Beardsley and Wilde through to outright pornography.

>

>Oscar Wilde described him thus:

>

>"He is usually in a large straw hat, has a blue tie delicately

>fastened with a diamond brooch of the impurest water - or

>perhaps wine, as he never touches water: it goes to his head at

>once. His face, clean-shaven as befits a priest who serves at

>the altar whose God is Literature, is wasted and pale - not with

>poetry but with poets, who he says, have wrecked his life by

>insisting on publishing with him. He loves first editions,

>especially by women. Little girls are his passion. He is the

>most learned erotomaniac in Europe. He is also a delightful

>companion..."

>

>"Little girls are his passion" - does anyone know more ?

>

>Yours

>--

>Ianthe Duende

>

>

Publisher to the Decadents : Leonard Smithers in the Careers of Beardsley,

Wilde, Dowson

by James G. Nelson, Peter Mendes is available at Amazon.com for $19.95.

Robin



________________________________________________________________

Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 20:58:12 +0100

From: Ianthe <ianthe@duende.demon.co.uk>

Subject: Re: 19th Century Pornography

In message <000401bf0823$06cc67c0$68fc21d0@oemcomputer>, Robin Hood

<mozowin@gtw.net> writes

>Publisher to the Decadents : Leonard Smithers in the

>Careers of Beardsley, Wilde, Dowson by James G. Nelson,

>Peter Mendes is available at Amazon.com for $19.95.

Many thanks - but it's not published until February 2000 :(

--

Ianthe Duende



________________________________________________________________ From: "jayD" <jaysd@mistral.co.uk>

Subject: abortion

Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 09:53:49 +0100

Lesley -

This may not be directly relevant but in _Payment in Full_ by Elizabeth

Carfrae published by Mills & Boon in 1929 the heroine, who has been forced

by her economic circumstances to marry a much older man she does not love,

has a stillbirth. After an adulterous affair with the man she does love she

bears a child. During her pregnancy she is confident that this time

everything will go well because she loves the father of the baby. This

seems to be a conscious or unconscious theme of M&Bs - if the hero and

heroine love or are going to love one another the baby survives, if not it

dies! I have never come cross an abortion, but nature certainly is

convenient.

There's a book by Constance M. Evans, _Life Comes to Mary Willard_ (1943)

which I only skimmed as it was outside the parameters I had set myself, in

which the heroine helps a woman who has an illegitimate child - there may

be a mentin of abortion in that.

There are a couple of stories about abortion in Angela Holdsworth's _Out of

the Doll's House_ (BBC 1988).

There's an abortion in _The Carpetbaggers_ but that is American of course -

I mention it because I remember reading it in the early 60s at school in

brown paper covers so the staff wouldn't confiscate it!

When was _Up the Junction_? If I remember correctly there's a back street

abortion in that.

j



________________________________________________________________

From: "Dr Gail Hawkes" <G.Hawkes@mmu.ac.uk>

Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 13:08:37 +0100

Subject: Re: Conference



Greeetings to all on the Histsex list. I am a new member and

delighted to be so! Responding to the query about the Sexual

Diversity and Human Rights Conference in Manchester : I was the

organiser of it so would be pleased to help with any queries about

papers etc.

Best wishes,

Gail Hawkes

Dr Gail Hawkes

Department of Sociology

Manchester Metropolitan University

Tel: +44 (0) 161 247 3464

Fax. +44 (0) 161 247 6321



________________________________________________________________

Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 12:08:04 -0400 (EDT)

From: "David F. Greenberg" <dg4@is3.nyu.edu>

Subject: Re: Representations of abortion,early C20th England

Victoria Greenwood wrote a book on abortion in England (I believe it was

called ABORTION IN DEMAND) that may be useful. - David Greenberg,

Sociology Department, New York University, New York, NY

________________________________________________________________

From: "Lesley Hall" <lesleyah@primex.co.uk>

Subject: Re: Representations of abortion,early C20th England

Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 20:09:37 +0100

>Victoria Greenwood wrote a book on abortion in England (I believe it was

>called ABORTION IN DEMAND)

Thanks - I haven't come across this one - neither Brookes, _Abortion in

England, 1900-1967_, nor Hindell and Simms, _Abortion Law Reformed_ gives

much attention to literary representations, as opposed to

political/legal/medical discourse and struggles.

I thought of some more examples myself today:

The pills Lil took 'to bring it off' in _The Waste Land_

In Mary Renault's first, contemporary, novel, the central character is a

nurse and has access to the steroid stilboestrol when she finds herself

pregnant

I have a vague recollection of a gin, hot baths and old woman episode in

Sillitoe's _Saturday Night and Sunday Morning_ - the hero's married lover.

Lesley Hall

lesleyah@primex.co.uk

website http://homepages.primex.co.uk/~lesleyah



________________________________________________________________

From: "Dr Gail Hawkes" <G.Hawkes@mmu.ac.uk>

Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 10:25:33 +0100

Subject: Re: abortion

Dear Lesley,

What about the L-Shaped Room? It was a movie but also a book. Also,

'Alfie' the movie of the '60's, and The Girl with Green Eyes, with

Rita Tushingham - Any good?

Best wishes,

Gail

Dr Gail Hawkes

Department of Sociology

Manchester Metropolitan University

Tel: +44 (0) 161 247 3464

Fax. +44 (0) 161 247 6321



________________________________________________________________

Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 11:56:14 -0300

From: Michael Manson <mmanson@uccb.ns.ca>

Subject: race and penis size

The study that is going on in Vancouver is not really new, nor, of course

is the racism that may inform the study's assumptions and its conclusions.

In the mid-1980s Phillipe Rushton at the University of Western Ontario came

out with a study that claimed a relationship between race, penis size and

intelligence. That study, too, created a tidal wave of response among

academics and non-academics alike and created an intense debate at the

university.

Michael Manson, English

mmanson@uccb.ns.ca

English

University College of Cape Breton

Box 5300

Sydney, Nova Scotia B1P 6L2

(902) 563-1244

FAX (902) 562-0119

"Stand the gaffe"



________________________________________________________________

From: "Chris Willis" <chris@chriswillis.freeserve.co.uk>

Subject: Re: Representations of abortion,early C20th England

Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 12:08:12 +0100

Hi!

Christianna Brand's murder mystery "London Particular" is about a girl who

tries desperately to get an abortion at a time when it was still illegal

Winifred Holtby's wonderful "South Riding" includes a passage in which a

women who's got an unwanted pregnancy and contemplates an illegal abortion

but is too scared. (Book 5, Chapter 1). Her need for an abotion is

underlined by the situation of her neighbours - a large, motherless family

whose mother died in childbirth, after being warned that having another

child would kill her.

All the best

Chris

=========================================

Chris Willis

English Dept

Birkbeck College

Malet Street

London WC1E 7HX

Chris@chriswillis.freeserve.co.uk

http://www.chriswillis.freeserve.co.uk/

________________________________________________________________

From: "Lesley Hall" <lesleyah@primex.co.uk>

Subject: Re: abortion

Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 18:52:36 +0100

Gail:

Thanks for the suggestions. It's so long since I've read _L-Shaped Room_

however - does she try to get an abortion and fail?

as she ends up going through with the pregnancy and keeping the child I

have it mentally catalogued as forming part of that 1960s single motherhood

cycle, eg Drabble's _The Millstone_.

Lesley

Lesley Hall

lesleyah@primex.co.uk

website http://homepages.primex.co.uk/~lesleyah



________________________________________________________________

Subject: Vatican fooling around

Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 19:55:41 -0800

From: "andrei-f" <andrei-f@goplay.com>

Hello,

Are there any good books out there on the sex life of the popes,

especially the ones who dabbled in male love?

Thanks,

Andrei

________________________________________________________________

Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 02:11:43 -0700 (PDT)

From: Firas Al Tamimi <firas70@yahoo.com>

Subject: Pictures

Any pic's for the sex life in the midle centuries .. in

Europe or the Midle East ?

Firas

________________________________________________________________

From: "Robin Hood" <mozowin@gtw.net>

Subject: Re: Pictures

Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 11:52:07 -0000

-----Original Message-----

From: Firas Al Tamimi <firas70@yahoo.com>

To: Histsex:For historians of sexuality <histsex@listbot.com>

Date: Wednesday, September 29, 1999 12:35 PM

Subject: Pictures



>Histsex:For historians of sexuality -

http://homepages.primex.co.uk/~lesleyah

>

>Any pic's for the sex life in the midle centuries .. in

>Europe or the Midle East ?

>

>Firas

Hi, I have several erotic pics from the middle ages as well as ancient and

modern times. I can attach them to messages to the group, if there is a

demand for it!

Robin Hood



________________________________________________________________

Date: 29 Sep 1999 19:15:03 -0000

From: "Histsex:For historians of sexuality" <histsex-owner@listbot.com>

Subject: Attachments: warning

Unfortunately, Listbot doesn't seem able to handle attachments, so PLEASE

do not send messages with attachments to the list. If anyone is interested

in Robin Hood's offer perhaps you could arrange to do so in private e-mail.

Lesley Hall

histsex-owner@listbot.com

lesleyah@primex.co.uk



________________________________________________________________

Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 21:46:14 +0100

From: Gert Hekma <hekma@pscw.uva.nl>

Subject: Re: 19th Century Pornography

Chris,

have also a look at the second volume of Sexual Cultures in Europe, ed. by

Hall, Eder and me (1999), where Dorelies Kraakman has an overview article

on pornography, and an interesting argument. She has also a full-length

book (in Dutch) that is quoted in her article.

Gert Hekma

________________________________________________________________

Subject: Re: Pictures

Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 19:33:13 -0800

From: "andrei-f" <andrei-f@goplay.com>

>>Any pic's for the sex life in the midle centuries .. in

>>Europe or the Midle East ?

>>

>>Firas

Firas, If you have not already done so, check the site I am editing,

The Androphile Project - http://www.androphile.org

Also, check back over the next month or so. We will be adding a bunch

of new pictures in the near future, from India and from China, which

so far have not been represented, as well as a bunch more from

ancient Greece and from imperial Rome.

A.

________________________________________________________________

From: "Lucas Brandão" <spocky_brandao@hotmail.com>

Subject: Re: Pictures

Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 10:56:53 EST

Robin,

I'm interested in the pics you get. Can you attach some to me?

greetings

Lucas

________________________________________________________________ From: "Margaretta Jolly" <jolly@moa.u-net.com>

Subject: Re: Vatican fooling around

Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 01:17:22 +0100

Hawthorne, Nigel. _Sex Lives of the Popes: An Irreverent Expose of the

>Bishops of Rome from St. Peter to the Present Day. 1996.

>

>Hope that helps. (though not serious I gather)

>

Margaretta

________________________________________________________________

From: HayGirl99@aol.com

Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 18:50:16 EDT

Subject: Re: Pictures

Robin,

I'm interested too. I'd really appreciate it if you could attach and

send them to me.

Thanks!

Lori


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